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AH-1Z and UH-1Y Doomed?

FLYMARINES

Doing Flips and Shit.
pilot
Read an article from military.com about the Armed Services Committee discussing cancelling the new AH-1Z and UH-1Y altogether because of problems with Bell. Just wondering if anyone has heard anything about this. Haven't seen another thread about this, sorry if it is a repost.
 

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Read an article form the May 1 Marine Times (hey, it was laying around and I had nothing else to read) and it talked about some more cost overruns and how Bell was not detailing them quite yet. Sounds like anohter 'cheap' solution that is costing a lot more than anyone originally envisioned. I went through SERE with a bunch of Cobra guys and every single one had bad things to say about Bell.......
 

FLYMARINES

Doing Flips and Shit.
pilot
If they cancel the program, are they just going to keep around the old models and add upgrades or are they going to find all new replacements?
 

HeyJoe

Fly Navy! ...or USMC
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
NAVAIR wrote Bell a letter stating "Two independent reviews concluded that there are still multiple areas of concern that must be addressed in the near term. Of major concern is whether [Bell Helicopter Textron] can perform to the contract and deliver the H-1 on schedule, and whether the program can go forward in accordance with the Bell Price Commitment letter of January 2006." Consequently, an OSD review was held to discuss the management and technical performance at Bell. The Defense Acquisition Board (DAB) did not reach a decision Wednesday after holding a process review of Bell Helicopter Textron's H-1 upgrade program, which is planned to deliver 180 AH-1Z Cobra attack helicopters and 100 UH-1Y Huey utility helicopters with common rotor/transmission and avionics. The review gave rise to speculation that the program might be in jeopardy, but the Marine Corps is committed to the program and Bell is putting a maximum effort into addressing issues at the Texas plant.

The formal review was requested after the Navy expressed concern in April over Bell's ability to "adequately perform the H-1 upgrades program" and called into question the company's "capability and capacity to successfully perform existing and future government contracts." The program has been troubled on some levels, but got go ahead to begin OPEVAL, which bodes well.

H-1 Program OPEVAL Begins
Four Aircraft Fly to China Lake Naval Air Station, California
Fort Worth, Texas - May, 10 2006 – Bell Helicopter, a Textron company (NYSE: TXT) announced at 8:00 AM Tuesday, May 9th, four H-1 aircraft, two AH-1Zs and two UH-1Ys, headed west from Patuxent River Naval Air Station, Maryland to begin the Program's long awaited Operations Evaluation (OPEVAL) period.

"This is a significant milestone in the H-1 Upgrades program and brings us that much closer to fielding this critical capability to the Fleet Marines who are anxiously awaiting these tremendously capable aircraft," said Col. Keith Birkholz, H-1 program manager at NAVAIR. "This milestone also is a tremendous testimony to the Government-Bell team that has labored so hard for the last few years to achieve it."

"This is a great day for the U.S. Marines and the H-1 Program" Bell Helicopter Chief Executive Officer Michael Redenbaugh. "Over the next six months these aircraft will demonstrate and validate the significant improvements that have been made to make them more valuable to the Marines. These aircraft are among the worlds most technologically advanced and posses capabilities that the Marines need now but also in the future." he continued.

The aircraft will fly to China Lake Naval Air Station in California where they will spend the next six months undergoing numerous tests and evaluations to determine the H-1 aircraft operational suitability. Start of OPEVAL represents the last exit criteria before a Defense Acquisition Board (DAB) is to decide on Low Rate Initial Production (LRIP) phase III.

The H-1 Upgrade Program will replace the current fleet of AH-1W and high time UH-1N aircraft by providing 180 AH-1Z and 100 UH-1Y new, zero-time, aircraft starting in 2006. Key to the program is the fact that the two different models of aircraft have 84% commonality of parts. Initial Operational Capability (IOC) is scheduled for 2008.
 

skidkid

CAS Czar
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
There are some serious problems with the Zulu, most are avionics related, some are engineering. Will they all be sorted out, probably but at what cost.

If they would jsut put a new HUD, FLIR moving map and a new SACLOS missile to replace the TOW I would fly the whiskey for the next 20 years.
 

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
FLYMARINES said:
Sir, that is all sorts of funny.

I'd be curious to hear why the -60 isn't a good platform from someone in the know (like Skid, for example). I'd guess the big limit would be visibility. As for all the other bells and whistles, the Army's 160th built quite an effective gunship w/ its DAP. I'm asking in all seriousness, not just blowing the -60's horn. I'll be the first to admit that it is a ***** to see out of.

@Flash:

Over the years, I've heard similar complaints about Bell, but it's never been more specific than what you posted. I haven't really heard anyone say anything bad about the current crop of Sikorsky products, except for age, so it always makes me wonder if the Bell complaints are real or just "what I heard."
 

Pags

N/A
pilot
gatordev said:
I'll be the first to admit that it is a ***** to see out of.

yeah, i'd love to meet the committee that designed that glareshield and kick them all square in the nuts.
 

mules83

getting salty...
pilot
I dont know why all you guys complain so much about getting a good view. Try flying a glider on tow with a 250lb lard a$$ sitting in a seat one foot infront of you. :):) The highlight of my day today.
 

FLYMARINES

Doing Flips and Shit.
pilot
gatordev said:
I'd be curious to hear why the -60 isn't a good platform from someone in the know (like Skid, for example). I'd guess the big limit would be visibility. As for all the other bells and whistles, the Army's 160th built quite an effective gunship w/ its DAP. I'm asking in all seriousness, not just blowing the -60's horn. I'll be the first to admit that it is a ***** to see out of.

@Flash:

Over the years, I've heard similar complaints about Bell, but it's never been more specific than what you posted. I haven't really heard anyone say anything bad about the current crop of Sikorsky products, except for age, so it always makes me wonder if the Bell complaints are real or just "what I heard."

Should have put a smile on that one. Personally I love the 60 and am curious as to how it would do as a gunship, but then again I would hate to see the Huey and the Marine Corps part ways.
 

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
mules83 said:
I dont know why all you guys complain so much about getting a good view. Try flying a glider on tow with a 250lb lard a$$ sitting in a seat one foot infront of you. :):) The highlight of my day today.

I know smiles are in effect, but I can't resist...

I think it has something to do w/ getting shot at/coming in for a pick/finding a survivor/coming in to land on a small surface while looking through toilet paper rolls.

As for looking around the fat heads and having to land using only my wits and the force...I do that every day. ;)
 

skidkid

CAS Czar
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
I think the 60 would make an excellent replacement for the Huey in all roles they currently perform.
I think that there is still a need for a dedicated attack platform like the Cobra, the Marine Corps really doesnt have much ground based fire support available hence the need for R/W and F/w CAS. Some of the selling features of the Cobra is the small size, its only 3'8" across, very hard to hit when it is attacking you.
I know the 60 can be modified to carry almost everything we carry but I honestly think that there is enougn utility missions to keep the UH and its replacement busy necessitating the need for a dedicated attack Helo.
That and I like my job and would like to keep it a while longer.
 

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
Yeah, the size issue makes sense. Didn't think about that, but now that you mention it, that's something I remember hearing about before. As for the -60 vs Cobra mission, I was thinking in terms of a one-for-one swap of airframe. Something that of course, wouldn't happen, but since we're talking academics here, anyway, hey, what the hell.
 

Fly Navy

...Great Job!
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
skidkid said:
ome of the selling features of the Cobra is the small size, its only 3'8" across, very hard to hit when it is attacking you.

Precisely the reason they built it to replace Huey gunships in Vietnam, yes?
 
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